4 quarts of type F - Transmission Experiment

JaVeLiN

New member
Howdy - Drained out the tranny fluid today on the '95 XJ, and it smelled like varnish and had a dark brown burnt tinge to it... :sunshine: Grampa says when an automatic starts to burn up, just change the fuild 4 quarts at a time and pray. All I had was some Penzoil Type-F, so I popped in 4 quarts, and took it for a ride out on Latrobe Road. The shifts are firm and sporty now !!! Soooo, here is my question. Is Type-F going to destroy the clutches and bands in the old automatic, or have I stumbled upon a new performace mod for old Cherokee automatics??? :explosion

 

NorCalChris

New member
This is really a tech article and should be posted in the tech section. You are going to want to drain and refill with the proper fluid type.
 

JaVeLiN

New member
As to the filter question, I did not see it yet. The '95 AW4 has a little 14mm drain plug on the bottom, so I just pulled that. It seems like replacing the filter/screen should be so easy that i can do it. I'll go check with the O'Reilley's Auto Parts in Jackson and see if I can get that and perhaps a new tranny-pan gasket.
 

NorCalChris

New member
Again this is a tech article, this shouldnt be here. Second, tech articles arn't supposed to have pics that arn't related to the tech posted in them. That is a nice looking jeep though. Just gotta remove the rear flairs now to match the front.
 

blondejoncherokee

NAXJA Member
NAXJA Member
type f is supposed to real bad for a aw4 i thought?
id take it out right away. drain it, and maybe flush it, don't drive it on that stuff
 

5-90

New member
Howdy - Drained out the tranny fluid today on the '95 XJ, and it smelled like varnish and had a dark brown burnt tinge to it... :sunshine: Grampa says when an automatic starts to burn up, just change the fuild 4 quarts at a time and pray. All I had was some Penzoil Type-F, so I popped in 4 quarts, and took it for a ride out on Latrobe Road. The shifts are firm and sporty now !!! Soooo, here is my question. Is Type-F going to destroy the clutches and bands in the old automatic, or have I stumbled upon a new performace mod for old Cherokee automatics??? :explosion
It probably won't destroy the clutches outright, but don't be surprised if you end up having clutch chatter - the friction modifiers in Type F are different from Dexron.

Also, Type F is more detergent than Dexron (I've often used it as an ersatz hand cleaner - use Type F to get the crud off, use regular bar soap to get the Type F off) which may or may not pose a problem (breaking varnish loose too quickly, you never know where it's going to end up.)

If I suspect something, I'll clean the strainer, magnet, and pan (gets big chunks out, gets iron filings out, gets a bunch of varnish out,) then run 1000-2000-mile changes with four quarts at a time until I've been through a case. That usually solves quite a bit (if I want to hit it a bit harder, I'll dump in a can of Berryman's B12 the day before I change it.)

In any case, drain it while the fluid is as hot as you can tolerate - that will get more crud drained out of the box.

The AW4 can take a stonking amount of abuse, tho! I've bought two where the transmission fluid looked like 10-vis engine oil - change as above to clean, and put 100,000-odd miles on them afterwards with no other major work. It's a Toyota design, and Toyota did a good job (it was also used behind the turbo Supra, just so you know...)
 
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techno1154

NAXJA Member
NAXJA Member
Type 'F' fluid,... Ihave heard od it it but knows nothing about it. It it 'F' as in Ford special ATF? I know years ago Chrysler had/required a special ATF for thr Intrepids. The use of regular ATF would cause the transmission to go into all kinds of hissy fit.

Years ago, it the the consensus here that anything except Dexron 3 would cause the AW4 to self destruct before the XJ reach the end of the drive way. At the same time this was being discussed, I had my AW4 rinning on Amsoil for better than 20,000 miles. Now, 150,000+ miles later, the AW4 still run and shift like the first day with 35,000 to 40,000 miles between oil changes.

Since I do not know aything about the type 'F' fluid, I am not in a position to give advice. However, most of the mature users on this forum have wisedom and experiance beyond their gray hairs (if they have). I will be wise to listen to them. One thing I know, the AW4 is a very robust transmission which do not go into a tantrum with out good reason. Keep your eyes on if for a while if you continue to to use that fluid.
 

5-90

New member
Type F is the old Ford spec - through the early 1980's, I think.

Mercon was the old Chrysler spec - it's been replaced by +3/+4.

Dexron is the GM spec, which keeps getting updated (Up to Dexron V or Dexron VI, I think. Several versions of II, and then that was replaced by III.)

The friction modifiers were different in each version, additives varied, and detergent levels varied as well. However, the friction modifiers are the most critical additive to change.

As far as the specs on the AW4 - it really doesn't like +3/+4 (stuff's common,) and it very likely won't like Type F - even the drain plug is stamped "DII", for Dexron II (or later spec in the series.)

Reports from the field on using synthetics vary - if it's a Dexron-spec synthetic, it's about a 50/50 shot (the clutches seem to get used to a particular fluid after a while, and switching to synthetic from dead dinosaurs seems to result in clutch chatter, if something is going to happen.) But, you can switch to a good synthetic (like Amsoil or RedLine) and the odds will be in your favour on a happy ending.

Reports from the field on the "multi-spec" fluids (Dexron/Mercon/+3/+4) are generally bad, so it should probably be avoided. Stick to Dexron (II or later) or Dexron/Mercon to save yourself the headache (the Mercon specs are apparently close enough to Dexron that they can be blended.)
 

JaVeLiN

New member
Sure is nice to get such good feedback, and it sounds like the AW4 is a great automatic indeed. Only put about 20 miles on the XJ after adding the 4 quarts of TYPE-F, but I am going back to a pure Dexron III diet from now on. Found a cool little parts store in Ione, CA that has all kinds of Dexron III, so I am going to stock up. Thanks again for all the good info.
 

iwannadie

New member
I got used to getting the big 5 quart bottle of DexIII at the local walmart for pretty cheap(I think around 20-25 bucks). They stopped selling it and the 1 quart bottles. I found the 1 quart bottles at oreilys but man they are like 7-8 bucks a bottle.
 

WB9YZU

NAXJA Forum Supporter
Mercon was the old Chrysler spec - it's been replaced by +3/+4.
Mercon=Ford

Think Mercury...

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JaVeLiN> I wouldn't bother unless you are going to go all the way and flush the transmission.

4 Qts (8pts) of TYPE-F most likely won't even be noticed as there is so much fluid still in the torque converter, cooling lines, and upper end of the transmission.

Removing 4 Qts of the mixture of what is in their now and adding 4 Qts of Dextron still results in a mixture.

Dextron and TYPE-F will mix; it is an old racers trick to improve shifting on B&M Shift Kit modified transmissions. You won't likely feel any difference at all with an unmodified one.
 
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5-90

New member
Sure is nice to get such good feedback, and it sounds like the AW4 is a great automatic indeed. Only put about 20 miles on the XJ after adding the 4 quarts of TYPE-F, but I am going back to a pure Dexron III diet from now on. Found a cool little parts store in Ione, CA that has all kinds of Dexron III, so I am going to stock up. Thanks again for all the good info.
Bear in mind that while you're changing four quarts, the "dry fill" capacity on the AW4 is eight quarts.

This means that you'll be cutting the "Type F content" by half each time you change the fluid (cf: "Zeno's Paradox.")

However, after about two changes, you'll effectively have one quart of Type F in - or 12.5% of capacity. That's rapidly running to the point where you can stop worrying about it.

If you suspected crud, drive it fairly hard, drain hot, and change the fluid after 1,000 miles - repeat. Two rapid changes with hot-drained fluid should loosen up and drain a bunch of crud to save you some trouble. That's usually how I do it - I just use solvent instead (typically Berryman's B-12 Chemtool.)
 

O-Gauge Steamer

New member
^^ Well put, the paradox, of course, is How many steps will it take to cross a room if every step you take is half the length of the previous step?

The answer is... You can never get across the room. And in this case, you can never get rid of the type F without taking the transmission apart. That being said, it may turn out to be a great crud cleaner. You might consider adding in an external transmission oil filter just to catch the crud as it circulates. Good news is that you already have connection points for it.
 

JaVeLiN

New member
I like the external filter idea --->>> "You might consider adding in an external transmission oil filter just to catch the crud as it circulates. Good news is that you already have connection points for it."

Can a guy just goto AutoZone or Pep Boys & buy an external transmission oil filter?? Seems like I should get a Ford Explorer Tranny cooler at pick-n-pull tomorrow, and just install the combo.

If you guys know a good part # for the
external transmission oil filter, please let me know, because it seems like cheap insurance & a cool maintenance item to extend the life of the average XJ. :cheers:
 

cruiser54

New member
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that Type F fluid is gonna be harsher than Berryman's and therefore require a supplemental filter.
 

the buddmang

New member
The wrong transmission fluid will cause harsh shifts. Hard shifts are not /always/ better.

Drain it and put the right stuff in.
 
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